並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep42-%E4%BA%BA%E7%89%A9%E5%81%B4%E5%AF%AB-%E5%BE%9E%E5%88%86%E6%9E%90%E5%B8%AB-%E6%93%8D%E7%9B%A4%E5%88%B0%E6%8A%95%E9%A1%A7%E7%B8%BD%E7%B6%93%E7%90%86-ft-tina/id1602637578?i=1000568802309