並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-48-%E5%B0%8F%E8%B3%87%E4%B8%8D%E8%83%BD%E9%8C%AF%E9%81%8E%E7%9A%84%E9%87%91%E8%9E%8D%E8%82%A1%E9%81%B8%E8%82%A1%E7%A5%95%E7%AC%88/id1531443831?i=1000531529430