並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep98-%E5%A4%AB%E5%A6%BB%E6%9C%88%E6%94%B6%E5%85%A510%E8%90%AC-%E5%8F%AF%E4%BB%A5%E8%B2%B7%E5%A4%9A%E5%B0%91%E9%8C%A2%E7%9A%84%E6%88%BF%E5%AD%90/id1561466637?i=1000559277314