並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep683-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82%EF%BD%98%E9%97%95%E5%8F%88%E4%B8%8A-%E5%8F%B0%E7%A9%8D%E9%9B%BB%E7%9A%84%E5%83%B9%E6%A0%BC%E8%88%87%E5%83%B9%E5%80%BC/id1536242998?i=1000570071348