並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep14-%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E6%A0%B9%E5%B0%B1%E8%A6%81%E5%92%AC-%E5%A4%A7%E5%8F%A3%E5%90%83%E8%82%89-q-a/id1560103568?i=1000519591768