並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep72-ava%E5%A4%A9%E4%BD%BF%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E5%B9%B3%E5%8F%B0%E5%8C%AF%E8%81%9A%E5%A4%A9%E4%BD%BF%E6%8A%95%E8%B3%87%E4%BA%BA-%E5%89%B5%E9%80%A0%E9%9B%86%E9%AB%94%E5%8A%9B%E9%87%8F/id1482088207?i=1000505279531